This is still of Grace because God initiates and enables us to be able to do it. And enables purgatory and the sanctifying effect it has.

After death before man can enter into God's presence there is an intermediate state for those that died before reaching perfect transformation to become perfect and acceptable to God.

Why Can't God just make us righteous at death?

Contemporary theologian Millard Erickson speaks for many of his fellow evangelicals when he writes, “In both this life and the life to come, the basis of the believer’s relationship with God is grace, not works. There need be no fear, then, that our imperfections will require some type of post“death purging before we can enter the full presence of God.”

• Arguing from the Wesleyan perspective that believers are able to achieve moral perfection in this life
  • reject that salvation is primarily a forensic matter, of having Christ's righteousness imputed or attributed to believers
  • God not only makes us righteous but also sanctifies us to complete or perfect righteousness
  • However, Wesley believe that complete sanctification takes place at the "instance of death"

Purgatory is taught in scripture

While the doctrine was not fully developed until the Middle Ages, the seeds from which it grew go back at least to the Church Fathers, if not to Scripture itself.

Andrew never give quotes scripture that suggest purgatory

Many Protestant/Reformed is repulsed by purgatory because it's judged at it's worse. When it is abused by indulgences

We don't like it mainly because it is not biblical.

It is a non biblical practice/believe that people in leadership used to abused and take advantage of people in lesser class.

If it is abused, we would want to reform it and put guard rails against it. Not remove it.

Andrew has not address the fact that God has lived a perfect life for us...

Heb 10... the veil was torn...

Doesn't address biblical data

• Doesn't address the thief on the cross, who went into paradise "today"
• Also doesn't address the parable where those that entered late also get paid the same...

Justification means to be declared righteous

Critics that it is gnosticism that body is bad and spirit is good.

time is needed for sanctification. Pain/suffering is necessary for sanctification.

But Edward also says that the soul shall be joined to the body again. So I don't think Edward is a Gnostic with that statement

This seems to be arguing from experience

Uses C.S. Lewis who also believe in purgatory

We want to be made rightouss

• C.S. Lewis is not a theologian
• Still need to test it against scripture

Scripture says that we can't be morally perfect in this life

States that Grace is more than forgiveness, but also transformation.

Avoids Cheap Grace of "salvation" without change

He doesn't really address this. But says that Salvation is more than mere mental assent and that transformation is needed

Straw Man Argument

• Evangelical, reformed Christians do know that we need to be sanctified...
• He keeps repeating this as if those who don't believe in purgatory think that all that needs for salvation is "mental assent"

Purgatory honors the fact that grace is not cheap and that transformation is required

Justification means to be "made righteous"

• We cannot be united with God unless we are holy

• Believers that died but weren't able to sanctified enough for heaven goes to purgatory - e.g. Christians who weakened under persecution
  • Purgatory is the intermediate time where believers are "sanctified" completely

Purgatory is taught in scripture

Uses C.S. Lewis who also believe in purgatory

We want to be made rightouss

Seems to be infered by other passages. And then making own conclusion on how God could do this.

But Scripture already made it clear that we are "declared" righteous before God. We are "in Christ". So God sees us as He sees Christ. It is no longer our own works.

God's grace initiates and enables our transformation. Grace is more than forgiveness but also transformation

How sinful man can be in the presence of God?

Why can't there be a distinction between "declared rightous" and "made righteous"?

Jerry Walls believes that purgatory has been largely rejected by Protestants because it is been judged